[Poll] Further changing main rape rule (Require all flags to be owned instead of neutral flags)

Do we effect these changes? Forcing a team to own all flags before attacking a main?

  • Yes.

    Votes: 11 47.8%
  • No.

    Votes: 12 52.2%
  • I'm too used to the rules as they are.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    23

IceSkater

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Greetings BFV community,

I was going to try add it in and see how it went but then, I remembered that changes have generally always been discussed. So this is another change that needs to be addressed it seems.

On occasion the main raping rule is sometimes confused. So, should we make it clearer and more fair to teams?


The change being;

Teams can no longer main rape if there is neutral flags, a team must own all the flags before they can main rape. If, for example on Hastings, all the flags are neutral, no main raping can happen until either team owns all the other flags.

Whereas currently, using Hastings as an example again, at the start of the map both teams have their main flag but every other flag is neutral - thus either team can go and attack each other's main flag until either team captures another flag.



The idea is to make it more fair, and possibly extend game times slightly instead of having players rush to main flags when there's neutral flags and possibly putting a large dent in the ticket's for that team.


Please let me know what your thoughts are on this. Also, we are all so used to this rule as it is, therefore if this change does happen, it is going to take quite a lot of adjusting to.



Regards,
Ice
 

Nitrofish

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For example, the map is Hastings and Blue has successfully captured all flags except the Red main. Blue may now attack Red main with planes and heli's.

...Blue must stop air attacks on Red main if a white flag appears anywhere on the map.

...If Blue is able to capture Red main then Blue owns all flags and Red no longer owns their main. Blue may continue to air attack (now it's actually become defending) the lost Red main, even if Red turns a flag white anywhere else on the map,

Now, If Red is able to change their main flag back to white then Blue CANNOT attack this area WITH planes or heli's, thus giving Red a better chance at re-claiming their lost main.


ETA: Simply put, only air attack enemy main on last flag. Stop air attacking the enemy main if you see a white flag anywhere on the map. If your team successfully captures all flags, including the enemy main, then you may DEFEND that captured main with air attacks. You must stop if the enemy team turns their lost main flag back to white.
 
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htn

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But as I said in the other thread.

Admins must then be more lenient against rapers if they come from the situation that they are allowed to rape and does not recognize the neutral flag immideately. Admins must give the raper a few seconds to recognize and leave, without taking action against him.

Now there is a little time between legal and illegal air rape. In future then there is no time between it, because there is no warning, that there will be a neutralized flag soon, the neutralized flag will just appear.
 

LTShaun

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But as I said in the other thread.

Admins must then be more lenient against rapers if they come from the situation that they are allowed to rape and does not recognize the neutral flag immideately. Admins must give the raper a few seconds to recognize and leave, without taking action against him.

Now there is a little time between legal and illegal air rape. In future then there is no time between it, because there is no warning, that there will be a neutralized flag soon, the neutralized flag will just appear.
Will warn befor kick/ban as most of us already do.
 

htn

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Will warn befor kick/ban as most of us already do.
Yes, me too. But warning is not a must, it is a can rule for admins. In this case it should be a must ^^
 

Vmax

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Its a no from me as the rule currently is working as intended.

You must take a flag to ensure you are not mainraped.
 

Vmax

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now you can mainrape without air no matter how many flags, and as i understood new rule forbidden that until all flawgs owned, so that YES from me.
It only applies to Main rape from the air. You can still do it with a tank.
 

silvia

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I understand good ..
The Enemy Has To Have All The Flags Of The ALL of him ..so Color IF HE CAN attack the Main
¿Right?
VOTE YES.
 

IceSkater

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IceSkater it is true? there still main can be captured at any time by infantry or tank?

Hey,

Yes. The main raping rule only applies to aircraft. We are only discussing the change of needing to capture all the flags, instead of allowing neutral flags to play a part.



Regards,
Ice
 

IceSkater

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Well thus far it seems we're mostly against this. :)

This topic will be closed if no more votes are counted in by Monday next week.



Regards,
Ice
 

TonyB

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I just voted yes. If I had my way, there would be no main raping, period. It's horrible to be on when you get three celebrity players, for example, on the same team and they beat the tar of out of us noobs. Some of the celebrity players won't engage in raping. It is very difficult to get a flag when choppers are circling main killing at will.

And is raping fun? What fun is it to kill and kill and kill, easily? I wish the celebrity players would switch teams when they can clearly see that one team has an advantage.

Raping drives players from the game and some never return.

My 2 cents worth.
 

silvia

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I just voted yes. If I had my way, there would be no main raping, period. It's horrible to be on when you get three celebrity players, for example, on the same team and they beat the tar of out of us noobs. Some of the celebrity players won't engage in raping. It is very difficult to get a flag when choppers are circling main killing at will.

And is raping fun? What fun is it to kill and kill and kill, easily? I wish the celebrity players would switch teams when they can clearly see that one team has an advantage.

Raping drives players from the game and some never return.

My 2 cents worth.
I totally agree with you except one word
"FAMOUS" DON'T GIVE THAT NAME TO 4 DUCKY WHO DON'T KNOW TO PLAY .. IN FACT THEY DON'T LOOK TO PLAY .. IF THEY WANTED TO PLAY THEY WOULD LEAVE THE MAIN .. AND FIGHT .. BUT OVERFLY OVER THE MAIN IN CIRCLES WITHOUT GIVING ANY CHOICE TO ANYTHING. THAT IS NOT PLAYING.
THEY ARE NOT FAMOUS ... THEY ARE SLUGS
 

IceSkater

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This topic had been stagnant for a bit,

15 Voters and it only now just went one up against it. I'm not entirely convinced on changing it. Because of how close the votes are, I feel we should leave it as is, maybe return to it another time.

Unless the votes suddenly go truly in the direction of the change, I'm not willing to amend the rule that we are all so used to. It's not exactly like there is a massive lean against or for it either...



Regards,
Ice
 

LTShaun

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Maybe set a deadline for people to have their votes in. As I can see right now the poll is in favour of the change.
 

IceSkater

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I'll throw one more go at it,

I'll drop an announcement in the Discord as well again. I'm not entirely convinced to make this change if the vote is leading by one in favor.

By the end of this week, Friday 9th April, if the votes have not changed drastically, we will pause this change and have a re-vote in another month or so.

Please also understand, and I'm generally speaking here, this rule has been in effect as is and unchanged since the early days of the final server. It's a rule that many of us are very accustomed to and until recently it has not been a problem at all.

I can agree maybe the wording can be improved, as that is what initially brought this poll up in the first place then it evolved into proper description of it along with the gameplay changes.




Regards,
Ice
 

x4|Al Gore

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Maps should have such strong defenses that no one would even think about raping a main. One lone quad to defend the Blue main in Hastings, and no quad for the Red main at all. Try raping the Red main in Fall of Saigon when I'm on the Red team. I will blow the rapist out of the sky before he/she even reach the Red main thanks to the BRDM. (That is why some players hate Fall of Saigon ;) because they can't rape here. This is the only map where the rapists get raped 😆). But we don't have such defenses so a proper no-rape-main rule is required.

If there is a main rape rule then the logical thing to do is to make it more difficult to be allowed to rape. Currently a Red team Mi-8 can go straight to the Blue main and start raping at the start of the map because Blue team has no flags, and vice versa. How does this retain players? A new BFV player who doesn't even know how to fly the Huey is going to get repeatedly raped until he quits the server as @TonyB rightly pointed out.

I understand that this rule has been in place for a long time, but it didn't make sense from the beginning. The logical thing to do is to make it hard for a rapist to rape, not easy. The new rule will force a team to capture all flags and then they can rape the enemy main. This is what I thought the rule was, until I was corrected by @htn and others recently. For six years I thought this was the rule. When the text said "A White flag does not count as team flag" I thought it meant that the White flag doesn't count as the rapist's team flag. That is why I voted Yes to fix this rule.
 

Vmax

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The rule was added to stop some players from going straight to enemys main at the start of the map and rape for the whole map.

Currently if a player is mainraping legally then they have warning when the flag turns white that they need to move away from main. BUT if this proposed rule goes through there will be no warning at all and they can be kicked by an admin when flag turns white.

Admins sacrifice enough game time as it is without trying to admin this rule change. Any admin who voted yes please make sure you are watching for rapers instead of playing on those air maps. Thanks.

EDITED for clarity
 
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IceSkater

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Siderant:

This isn't entirely to do with topic but it felt right posting it here, since it was mentioned indirectly in some of the responses

It's a game, it's not meant to be fair or even. It's a war game. It was intended that players fight for the right to win the game, it was never intended to be a casual meetup and laugh things off type of game.

Mains are supposed to be defended, you are supposed to use every tool at your disposal in-game to defend your flags. If you don't, the enemy will take advantage. Does it suck? Yes. Is it poor sportsmanship? Yes. Is it a crime? No.

If we wanted to create the ultimate "fair" game server, we'd have the following additions to the rules:

  • No taking of main flags. Period.
  • Friendly fire on 100%. Therefore no noobtuber comment, no "no skill" comments.
  • No map voting, so every player can play the map they want (which some end up waiting just to play that map and then leave promptly.
  • Finally, immediate and irrevocable ban for anyone that seems to have "hack" like abilities.

That would solve all our problems. :) It would also put us six feet under, where the rest of the large Battlefield Vietnam servers lay. Battlefield games are supposed to be challenging, not easy and certainly not fair.

It all comes down to how people play the game. Are they playing to win? Are they playing to just be disruptive? Or are they just playing for the fun of it and enjoying the ride irrespective of the shortfalls?



Siderant over,

In case it is not entirely clear, I'm against this current amendment to the main raping rules. I personally feel that it is not a predominant problem. Just like with the "problem" of swearing - it was not a predominant problem - but we had a vote and the community said it was. I did in a way agree somewhat with that change though, because we did indeed have younger players online.

So with this, if the community says it's a problem, then it is. That being said again though, I don't want to see a tie in the votes for this change, I don't want to see a lead by one vote.

I want to see proper conviction to the change. A proper and decisive vote, either against or for the change. So if that does not happen by the time I prescribed (Friday 9th April), then we will have another vote on it within a month or so.

I will drag my heels slightly with this, mainly because our OG players know and understand this rule very well, even if some of them choose to ignore the rule - hence they get kicked immediately (providing the Admin is not being lenient ;) ). They will need to readjust.



I await the weekend to see what the votes look like. I will count whatever votes are shown on the Discord topic towards these votes.



Regards,
Ice
 

hard_rice

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I already voted. This vote also means no ground attack as I read it? It is unfortunate that it has come to this but taking main kills air maps. Some will say well this is war and that is the end of it for them. To be more accurate this is a war game. Games are ment to be entertaining and fun not always about how much hell you can let loose on your opponet. We have map vote or if an admin is online the players may request that the map be changed if the online players wish a different map. Taking main especially on air maps makes players leave the server and ruins the map even further this apparently does not bother some players but has become enough of a problem that a gentlemans agreement does not work for them and one player said if you don't like it change the rules so here we are.
 
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