[Poll] Further changing main rape rule (Require all flags to be owned instead of neutral flags)

[IceSkater]

I'll throw one more go at it,

I'll drop an announcement in the Discord as well again. I'm not entirely convinced to make this change if the vote is leading by one in favor.

By the end of this week, Friday 9th April, if the votes have not changed drastically, we will pause this change and have a re-vote in another month or so.

Please also understand, and I'm generally speaking here, this rule has been in effect as is and unchanged since the early days of the final server. It's a rule that many of us are very accustomed to and until recently it has not been a problem at all.

I can agree maybe the wording can be improved, as that is what initially brought this poll up in the first place then it evolved into proper description of it along with the gameplay changes.




Regards,
Ice

 

[x4|Al Gore]

Maps should have such strong defenses that no one would even think about raping a main. One lone quad to defend the Blue main in Hastings, and no quad for the Red main at all. Try raping the Red main in Fall of Saigon when I'm on the Red team. I will blow the rapist out of the sky before he/she even reach the Red main thanks to the BRDM. (That is why some players hate Fall of Saigon because they can't rape here. This is the only map where the rapists get raped ). But we don't have such defenses so a proper no-rape-main rule is required.

If there is a main rape rule then the logical thing to do is to make it more difficult to be allowed to rape. Currently a Red team Mi-8 can go straight to the Blue main and start raping at the start of the map because Blue team has no flags, and vice versa. How does this retain players? A new BFV player who doesn't even know how to fly the Huey is going to get repeatedly raped until he quits the server as @TonyB rightly pointed out.

I understand that this rule has been in place for a long time, but it didn't make sense from the beginning. The logical thing to do is to make it hard for a rapist to rape, not easy. The new rule will force a team to capture all flags and then they can rape the enemy main. This is what I thought the rule was, until I was corrected by @htn and others recently. For six years I thought this was the rule. When the text said "A White flag does not count as team flag" I thought it meant that the White flag doesn't count as the rapist's team flag. That is why I voted Yes to fix this rule.

 

[Vmax]

The rule was added to stop some players from going straight to enemys main at the start of the map and rape for the whole map.

Currently if a player is mainraping legally then they have warning when the flag turns white that they need to move away from main. BUT if this proposed rule goes through there will be no warning at all and they can be kicked by an admin when flag turns white.

Admins sacrifice enough game time as it is without trying to admin this rule change. Any admin who voted yes please make sure you are watching for rapers instead of playing on those air maps. Thanks.

EDITED for clarity

 

[IceSkater]

Siderant:

This isn't entirely to do with topic but it felt right posting it here, since it was mentioned indirectly in some of the responses

It's a game, it's not meant to be fair or even. It's a war game. It was intended that players fight for the right to win the game, it was never intended to be a casual meetup and laugh things off type of game.

Mains are supposed to be defended, you are supposed to use every tool at your disposal in-game to defend your flags. If you don't, the enemy will take advantage. Does it suck? Yes. Is it poor sportsmanship? Yes. Is it a crime? No.

If we wanted to create the ultimate "fair" game server, we'd have the following additions to the rules:

• No taking of main flags. Period.
• Friendly fire on 100%. Therefore no noobtuber comment, no "no skill" comments.
• No map voting, so every player can play the map they want (which some end up waiting just to play that map and then leave promptly.
• Finally, immediate and irrevocable ban for anyone that seems to have "hack" like abilities.

That would solve all our problems. It would also put us six feet under, where the rest of the large Battlefield Vietnam servers lay. Battlefield games are supposed to be challenging, not easy and certainly not fair.

It all comes down to how people play the game. Are they playing to win? Are they playing to just be disruptive? Or are they just playing for the fun of it and enjoying the ride irrespective of the shortfalls?



Siderant over,

In case it is not entirely clear, I'm against this current amendment to the main raping rules. I personally feel that it is not a predominant problem. Just like with the "problem" of swearing - it was not a predominant problem - but we had a vote and the community said it was. I did in a way agree somewhat with that change though, because we did indeed have younger players online.

So with this, if the community says it's a problem, then it is. That being said again though, I don't want to see a tie in the votes for this change, I don't want to see a lead by one vote.

I want to see proper conviction to the change. A proper and decisive vote, either against or for the change. So if that does not happen by the time I prescribed (Friday 9th April), then we will have another vote on it within a month or so.

I will drag my heels slightly with this, mainly because our OG players know and understand this rule very well, even if some of them choose to ignore the rule - hence they get kicked immediately (providing the Admin is not being lenient ). They will need to readjust.



I await the weekend to see what the votes look like. I will count whatever votes are shown on the Discord topic towards these votes.



Regards,
Ice

 

[hard_rice]

I already voted. This vote also means no ground attack as I read it? It is unfortunate that it has come to this but taking main kills air maps. Some will say well this is war and that is the end of it for them. To be more accurate this is a war game. Games are ment to be entertaining and fun not always about how much hell you can let loose on your opponet. We have map vote or if an admin is online the players may request that the map be changed if the online players wish a different map. Taking main especially on air maps makes players leave the server and ruins the map even further this apparently does not bother some players but has become enough of a problem that a gentlemans agreement does not work for them and one player said if you don't like it change the rules so here we are.

 

[IceSkater]

I already voted. This vote also means no ground attack as I read it? It is unfortunate that it has come to this but taking main kills air maps. Some will say well this is war and that is the end of it for them. To be more accurate this is a war game. Games are ment to be entertaining and fun not always about how much hell you can let loose on your opponet. We have map vote or if an admin is online the players may request that the map be changed if the online players wish a different map. Taking main especially on air maps makes players leave the server and ruins the map even further this apparently does not bother some players but has become enough of a problem that a gentlemans agreement does not work for them and one player said if you don't like it change the rules so here we are.

This vote is just for air attack.

We are only voting on the air attack and only air attack parameters.

 

[hard_rice]

Come on people vote there are only 16 votes and we certainly have more than 16 players.

 

[TonyB]

May I point out, as far as I know, I cast the deciding vote?! lol

I appreciate that Ice is trying different things to tweak the game to IMPROVE the game. We should all appreciate it. I like that players discuss the options and point things out. We all must work together. In harmony. And, fortunately, it looks like there is more harmony now that many of us are on Discord.

I will embrace all change with positive response and if things don't work, will provide constructive comment. That is my pledge.

 

[IceSkater]

As things stand,

With the votes on Discord and the votes here added together we get:

14 For the change.

12 Against the change.

Still not exactly a large gap between the two. We'll see if there are any further changes to the votes by tomorrow night and we'll decide from there.



Regards,
Ice

 

[Vmax]

1 guy didn't know the rule and we vote to change it to what he likes.....Doen't sit well with me sorry guys.

 

[Blueheeler]

Siderant:

This isn't entirely to do with topic but it felt right posting it here, since it was mentioned indirectly in some of the responses

It's a game, it's not meant to be fair or even. It's a war game. It was intended that players fight for the right to win the game, it was never intended to be a casual meetup and laugh things off type of game.

Mains are supposed to be defended, you are supposed to use every tool at your disposal in-game to defend your flags. If you don't, the enemy will take advantage. Does it suck? Yes. Is it poor sportsmanship? Yes. Is it a crime? No.

If we wanted to create the ultimate "fair" game server, we'd have the following additions to the rules:

• No taking of main flags. Period.
• Friendly fire on 100%. Therefore no noobtuber comment, no "no skill" comments.
• No map voting, so every player can play the map they want (which some end up waiting just to play that map and then leave promptly.
• Finally, immediate and irrevocable ban for anyone that seems to have "hack" like abilities.

That would solve all our problems. It would also put us six feet under, where the rest of the large Battlefield Vietnam servers lay. Battlefield games are supposed to be challenging, not easy and certainly not fair.

It all comes down to how people play the game. Are they playing to win? Are they playing to just be disruptive? Or are they just playing for the fun of it and enjoying the ride irrespective of the shortfalls?



Siderant over,

In case it is not entirely clear, I'm against this current amendment to the main raping rules. I personally feel that it is not a predominant problem. Just like with the "problem" of swearing - it was not a predominant problem - but we had a vote and the community said it was. I did in a way agree somewhat with that change though, because we did indeed have younger players online.

So with this, if the community says it's a problem, then it is. That being said again though, I don't want to see a tie in the votes for this change, I don't want to see a lead by one vote.

I want to see proper conviction to the change. A proper and decisive vote, either against or for the change. So if that does not happen by the time I prescribed (Friday 9th April), then we will have another vote on it within a month or so.

I will drag my heels slightly with this, mainly because our OG players know and understand this rule very well, even if some of them choose to ignore the rule - hence they get kicked immediately (providing the Admin is not being lenient ). They will need to readjust.



I await the weekend to see what the votes look like. I will count whatever votes are shown on the Discord topic towards these votes.



Regards,
Ice

Well Shawn if you didn't wear stiletto heels you might not DRAG them Although you do have the legs for high heels

 

[Vmax]

I am pretty sure I am going to start a poll to ban m79s and seat swapping in cobras if this one is a winner

 

[Pipiska Cheburator]

I am pretty sure I am going to start a poll to ban m79s and seat swapping in cobras if this one is a winner

Lol
This is not required - we have code to fix it.
As for m79 we have awards))

 

[IceSkater]

Well Shawn if you didn't wear stiletto heels you might not DRAG them Although you do have the legs for high heels

I feel like this is both a compliment and a burn all rolled into one.

Thank you and also I'll see you ingame to exact my revenge.

I am pretty sure I am going to start a poll to ban m79s and seat swapping in cobras if this one is a winner

I don't think that will be necessary. Judging by what I'm seeing so far, if it's too close again I may not implement it.

I'll check the results in total later when I get home. I need to work on my runway strut.



Regards,
Ice

 

[IceSkater]

With the deadline here,​

The votes on Discord at the time of posting this response is as seen in the screenshot below:

Bearing in mind that the initial reactions are from me (unavoidable, needed to add the reactions). So that means that the votes are 5 / 5.

Added to the votes this current topic has, it brings the totals to:

15 for the change

14 against the change

As I mentioned earlier, I want to see a decisive result. This is not a decisive result.

​

Therefore this change will not be implemented. We may poll again for the change a little further down the line and see if the views have changed.



Thank you to those that have voted and I am sorry if this outcome is not what a few wanted. These votes have shown that the community is not entirely decided and I cannot ignore the fact that a near equal amount of people have voted against this change.

It's either a clear yes or a clear no, most importantly when it comes to amending a rule that has been around since the early days.



Regards,
Ice

 

[Pipiska Cheburator]

The minority won. I don't think it's worth making any changes at all. It doesn't make sense. Well, that half of the players and even more want changes, there are other players that do not want them, so they will not be, everyone is free

I am out from here - nothing change here , just like before and now - nothing will be changed. I will play sometimes on server - but not as usual.

 

[htn]

The minority won. I don't think it's worth making any changes at all. It doesn't make sense. Well, that half of the players and even more want changes, there are other players that do not want them, so they will not be, everyone is free

I am out from here - nothing change here , just like before and now - nothing will be changed. I will play sometimes on server - but not as usual.

This server is the most frequent BFV server. So the decisions made here couldn't be that wrong.

And this rule is not a side-rule. It is a major rule.

I think it is good to compare with the constitation laws in many countries, where changes must have 2/3 majority to apply.

It is up to you to play on this server or use another or your KGC one.

 

[IceSkater]

The minority won. I don't think it's worth making any changes at all. It doesn't make sense. Well, that half of the players and even more want changes, there are other players that do not want them, so they will not be, everyone is free

I am out from here - nothing change here , just like before and now - nothing will be changed. I will play sometimes on server - but not as usual.

I am sorry to hear this,

Nevertheless, thank you for the help that you provided. We'll be seeing you around.



Regards,
Ice

 

[TonyB]

This stuff sounds all good and well when teams are even.

I was just on, back from holiday. Siege of Khe - we had two players AFK. Red takes choppers, Rick in Cobra. Some other red in the gunship and here comes the MI8 - circle and rape. Yeah, last flag. It was impossible to do anything. It was time for lunch. So guys leave, as did I.

 

[x4|Al Gore]

This stuff sounds all good and well when teams are even.

I was just on, back from holiday. Siege of Khe - we had two players AFK. Red takes choppers, Rick in Cobra. Some other red in the gunship and here comes the MI8 - circle and rape. Yeah, last flag. It was impossible to do anything. It was time for lunch. So guys leave, as did I.

Welcome back buddy. Hey look! I'm a civilian again